Machine embroidery needle sizes: 75/11 vs 80/12 and when to switch

Use a 75/11 needle for most machine embroidery in standard 40 weight thread. Switch up to an 80/12 when thread keeps breaking on something thick or stiff, like a structured cap or a canvas work jacket. Switch down to a 65/9 for very small lettering in 60 weight thread.

What the two numbers mean

Both numbers describe the same needle in two sizing systems. AllStitch's article on which needle to use explains that the 75 is the European size and the 11 is the American size.

The European number is a real measurement. Schmetz's page on needle size designations says it is the diameter of the needle blade in hundredths of a millimeter. A 75 is 0.75 mm across. An 80 is 0.80 mm across.

So the gap between a 75/11 and an 80/12 is five hundredths of a millimeter. That sounds like nothing. The needle goes through the fabric on every stitch, though, and a left chest logo can be 10,000 stitches.

75/11 is the needle that stays on the machine

Melco's page on choosing a needle calls 75/11 the "standard needle size and good for the majority of embroidery applications." Schmetz sells its home machine embroidery needle in 75/11 and 90/14.

My own records agree. I stitch with 40 weight polyester thread on a Melco Bravo. My setup notes show a 75/11 on fleece sweatshirts, a polo, terry towels, unstructured cotton twill caps, and a coated nylon backpack. Different fabrics, different stabilizers, same size needle.

If you are new and wondering which size to buy first, buy 75/11.

When to switch up to an 80/12

Melco's needle page names the two jobs. It says an 80/12 is often used on caps with buckram backing or cotton duck jackets "to help alleviate thread breaks." Buckram is the stiff mesh behind the front panels of a structured cap. Duck is the heavy canvas that work jackets are made of.

The general rule comes from AllStitch's needle article: larger needles for heavier fabrics, thicker threads, or both. So there are two reasons to go up a size.

The material is thick or stiff. If a 75/11 is breaking thread on a structured cap, the 80/12 is the swap Melco names. What a cap costs to stitch is in my guide to pricing embroidery on hats.

The thread is thicker than 40 weight. AllStitch's page on metallic thread pairs a 40 weight metallic with an 80/12 and a 30 weight metallic with a 90/14. Melco's page lists the 90/14 for "some specialty and metallic threads."

Heavy fabric does not always need the bigger needle. On a canvas bag sample this summer I ran a 75/11 for one color and an 80/12 for the other. Both ran clean at 650 stitches a minute.

When to switch down to a 65/9 or 70/10

Small lettering is the usual reason. Melco's needle page lists the 65/9 for fine fabrics, 60 weight thread, "and delicate design details and tiny lettering." It lists the 70/10 for fine fabrics, design details, and small letters.

The thread and the needle change together. AllStitch's page on 60 weight thread says to use it when a design calls for small lettering or fine detail, to always pair it with a size 65 needle, and to increase the density of the design because the thread is thinner.

Madeira USA's needle guide gives the rule behind all of this: "Using the smallest needle recommended for each thread type will give you the optimal, best looking design." The same page tells new embroiderers to start with the larger or middle size recommended for a thread.

Sharp or ballpoint matters as much as the size

Size is one choice. The point is a second one, and a 75/11 comes in both.

Madeira USA's needle guide sorts them by fabric. Sharp points are for "standard woven fabrics, twill, denim, canvas, caps and broadcloth." Ballpoint needles are for "knitted fabrics such as t-shirts, lingerie, fleece, sweatshirt material and finely knit sweaters." AllStitch's needle article gives the reason: a ballpoint is designed to avoid making holes in knits.

That is how my own notes read. Sweatshirts and polos got a 75/11 ballpoint. The twill caps and the nylon backpack got a 75/11 sharp. The bags, beanies, and baby clothes in my guide to hard-to-hoop items follow the same split. My cutaway stabilizer guide covers what goes under a knit.

So when a knit shows small holes around the stitching, check the point before you change the size.

Buy the needle your machine takes

A size is not the whole name of a needle. Madeira USA's guide says round shank needles are the ones commonly used on commercial embroidery machines, and needles with a flat side on the shank are for home machines.

AllStitch's needle article gives the codes to look for on the box. Flat shank needles usually start with 15x1. Round shank needles usually start with DBxK5. The article lists Tajima, Barudan, and Melco among the machines that use them. Melco's needle page says its AMAYA machines take DBxK5 needles, which have eyes nearly 25% larger.

Check your manual for the needle system before you order. A 75/11 in the wrong system is the right size and still will not fit.

How many hours a needle lasts

Fewer than most people guess. Melco's needle page gives a standard needle "approximately 4 to 6 solid sewing hours." It says a titanium needle, the gold colored one, lasts two to three times as long but has little flex. AllStitch's needle article says to change needles after 5 to 10 hours of sewing, depending on the thread.

Schmetz's needle guide lists what a worn or damaged needle does:

• Broken or shredded threads
• Skipped or uneven stitches
• Puckered or damaged fabrics
• Popping sounds from the machine

On a multi-needle machine the needles do not wear evenly. The needle that carries the color you stitch most does most of the sewing, so it reaches those hours long before the others do. When one color starts shredding and the rest run fine, change the needle on that color first.

Write the needle down with the job

A needle that worked is worth as much as a thread number on the reorder. My record for each finished piece lists the needle size and the point next to the stabilizer and the thread colors. My guide to thread color records shows what else goes in that record.

In Broidry, each design's own page has a notes box with fill-in lines for Stabilizer, Machine speed, Hooping, and Needle. Fill in the needle line the day the piece stitches clean. The next order for that design starts from it.

When the piece belongs to the customer, test the needle on a scrap of similar fabric first. My guide to embroidering customer-supplied garments covers that test.

The short version

Keep a 75/11 on the machine for 40 weight thread. Go up to an 80/12 for structured caps, heavy canvas, or thicker thread when a 75/11 breaks thread. Go down to a 65/9 with 60 weight thread for very small lettering. Pick ballpoint for knits and sharp for wovens and caps. Buy the needle system your machine takes. Change a standard needle after about 4 to 10 sewing hours, sooner if thread shreds or stitches skip. Write down the needle that worked.